The Delegates Lounge

Inside Slovenia’s Security Council Finale

• The Delegates Lounge LLC • Season 5 • Episode 1

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 32:15

From the office of the United Nations Security Council president, we sit down with Slovenian Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Tanja Fajon to unpack how a small state navigates big political storms.

The conversation addresses Gaza’s fragile ceasefire and Russia's war in Ukraine—where her recent visit revealed the human cost of the war. The discussion delves into European defense resilience and the legal thicket around frozen Russian assets. We conclude with an analysis of the search for the next UN Secretary-General, who will take office next year. As the first woman to serve as Slovenia's foreign minister, our guest argues for more women in high office at the United Nations. 

If this conversation sharpens your view of global diplomacy, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review. Your feedback helps other curious listeners find their way to The Delegates Lounge.

Speakers: 

J. Alex Tarquinio (host) is a resident correspondent at the United Nations in New York and co-founder of The Delegates Lounge podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. @alextarquinio of @delegateslounge on X and @thedelegateslounge on Instagram.

Tanja Fajon (guest) is the deputy prime minister and minister of foreign and European affairs for the Republic of Slovenia. @tfajon of @MZEZ_RS on X and @tanja.fajon of @MFEA_slovenia on Instagram.

References: 

Our host mentioned her Foreign Policy article about Slovenia's successful campaign against Belarus for the seat on the Security Council reserved for Eastern Europe.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/06/09/belarus-slovenia-russia-united-nations-security-council-rotating-seat/

gift link

Her recent FP article gives a sense of the challenges confronting the United Nations and the elected Security Council members.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2026/01/09/united-nations-trump-withdraws-budget-venezuela-world-order/

gift link

Photo/Video Credits:

Photos and videos of Minister Fajon's foreign travels courtesy of the Slovenian Foreign Ministry

Videos in the United Nations Security Council and General Assembly; historical photos of the United Nations Conference on Interational Organization in San Franciso in 1945 : © United Nations

Photo from the high-level conference on Palestine: UN Photo/Manuel Elías; 22 September 2025; © United Nations

Photo of the European Parliament in Strasbourg: olrat - stock.adobe.com

Video of Brussels/European Union headquarters: © European Union

Video of the NATO headquarters in Brussels and of the NATO training operation with Ukrainian soldiers: © NATO

Photos and video within and looking out of the window of the Security Council President's office in December 2025 and of the arrival at the main entrance for the General Assembly in September 2025: © The Delegates Lounge LLC

All other photos and videos licensed from Adobe Stock

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Delegates Lounge. I'm Alex Turquinio, a journalist based at the United Nations here in New York City, and your MC for this podcast, featuring some of the most influential minds in the world today. Settle in for some riveting tat available wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome back. We have a unique episode for you today recorded in one of the most exclusive corners of the United Nations building in New York, the office of the president of the Security Council. We sat in here for an exclusive conversation with the Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Slovenia, Natalia Fahon, while her country held the monthly rotating presidency of the Security Council in December 2025. I see the inside of this office in a few different presidencies. And they often like to put their stamp on it. However, I was still surprised by the extent of the transformation with the Slovenian furnishings, and as regular listeners of our podcast, we'll know they like to serve their secondary dessert. This was a bittersweet moment for Slovenian diplomacy. Not only were we meeting during the final month of the year, but it was also Slovenia's final month as an elected member of the Security Council. They joined the Security Council after winning a competitive election against Belarus, which I covered for foreign policy. As always, when I mention an article, I'll include it in the show notes. Now they've just completed their two-year council term on the highest possible note in the presidency. Our guest today, Tanya Fah, is no stranger to the fast-paced world of breaking news as well as diplomacy, having begun her career as a journalist and covering Russia. That pathway led her to politics, and she's now not only the deputy prime minister, but also the foreign minister of her country.

SPEAKER_02:

And as winter is setting in, the weakest parts of society continue to bear the brunt of the war. Civilians are in a dire need of an end to hostilities. And it is our responsibility to respond to a dire situation on the ground. We have reliable data provided to us by the briefers. We have trustworthy information from the UN presidency in the country. As council members, we must speak against blatant violations of humanitarian international law.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for inviting me. Going back to Slovenia's early modern era, you were a student and a young journalist during the 10-day war for independence from Yugoslavia. Of course, at the time you couldn't know that it would be such a swift independence. So can you just describe a little bit about your experience living through that and how that shaped your commitment to a free and independent Slovenia?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yes, maybe. One memory that I often have in my mind when there was the first day of the war in Yugoslavia, especially in Slovenia in 1991, I was a young journalist student. I became my first day to a commercial literature in my capital of Slovenia, Ljubljana. And the editor said, Go out, go out to the market, check the prices, what is happening. So I went out and I really marked down the prices, what is happening, first day of war in Slovenia. And I came back to the studio, and then the editor said, No, go to the studio, tell to your audience. And that was my early beginning. So the first day of war in Slovenia and my first journalistic day, which is quite a memory. But to look back, um, I mean, Slovenia was still the war in Slovenia was 10 days long. We were, it's wrong to say on the lucky side, but luckily we made out in a better way than other parts of former Yugoslavia. Each next country that followed had more brutal and more bloody war. And as a journalist, I often um also visited some spots and uh was um observing what is happening on the ground. And of course, it it's uh terrible to see. We had a lot of families, a lot of friends in our former Yugoslavia that we were connected, and suddenly we lost these connections and ties.

SPEAKER_00:

So uh if I understand correctly, then your very first day as a young journalist at this radio station just happened to coincide with the first day. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

That was my first very first experience. How to become a journalist uh throughout the night.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So talk about being in the right place at the right time, which is often the most important uh aspect of journalism. What do you think was was most critical to Slovenia developing and building their democratic institutions from scratch, especially as you did move rather quickly from being a young journalist to a politician and going on the broader world stage being a member of the European Parliament?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, in Slovenia we were very united when it came to our independence as a young state. We really wanted to have our own state, and that was an easy, maybe, choice or a decision also for the political elites at that time. I was a journalist for many years, but later on I became a foreign correspondent in Brussels, which was also an amazing time. I was last year of Slovenia joining the UN NATO, and also the first four years when we were already the member of both EU and NATO. So I spent in Brussels a big part of my life as a journalist. So I knew the institutions well. I was presenting all the pluses and minuses back home and followed the very interesting part, Euro Atlantic part of Slovenia, if I say so. And um, I was, of course, uh quite a familiar face in Slovenia. People knew me. Slovenia is a small country. I was working for the national TV and also radio. And after a while, they invited me when were the next European elections, that I should go and run and join the politics, which I have to say at that time in time, I maybe didn't know exactly what it means. But um, if I look back now, I don't regret. It was a complete change of life. But knowing that I was for many years working on European circles and institutions, I knew it pretty well, you know, when I became a politician also in the European Parliament.

SPEAKER_00:

So you didn't quite know what you were getting into, but you have no regrets about the transition to politics. Very good. Um, we're sitting here, by the way, I should tell our listeners and viewers in the president's office of the UN Security Council. Slovenia has been an elected member of the Security Council. You're just completing your two-year term. Um, and this is your second term in the monthly rotating presidency. So you have just a few weeks left on the Security Council. Perhaps you can reflect both on what it's meant as a member, an elected one of the so-called E10 who has two years in the Security Council, and also um on your term in the presidency.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, yes, it was um a very challenging time. At the same time, a great opportunity for a country as Slovenia. It's our second experience. We had once been in a Security Council many, many years ago, but this time, of course, we live in a completely different time in geopolitical turbulences where we really as a country tried to build bridges, tried to bring confidence back, and all based on international law, multilateralism, and the UN Charter. So at the end, I have to say, for the minister, it was a great opportunity and time. I really had a privilege to meet a lot of new colleagues, a privilege to understand, to listen, to hear others from all around the globe, and also invest in new relations with the like-minded countries, and um anyway to address all the conflicts around the world with the same principles. And that was very important for us. Because for Slovenia, there is no alternative to international law or UN charter or multilateralism and a dialogue. So we had to be very skilled, but at the same time, we really had to listen to um make people understand that we are there and that we are willing to have a political dialogue instead of military solutions.

SPEAKER_00:

So, of course, your term began after the terrible attacks on October the 7th and the Gaza war that followed. How has that really dominated your term on the Security Council?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, for from the very beginning, after the terrible Hamas attack on the 7th of October, we strongly condemned it. Um that is unacceptable, any terror against civilian population. And uh I've spent some time uh traveling to the region, to Tel Aviv and to Ramallah to see how we can best secure peace and stability in the region. And um, I mean the war was ongoing, terrible atrocities upon the civilian population. We've seen so many killed innocent civilians and children. Um, even starvation, famine was officially declared as a weapon of the war. So, in the absence of uh, you know, finding a ceasefire and a sustainable solution, Slovenia decided to recognize sovereign and independent state of Palestine. We strongly believe that is the only safety guarantee for Israelis and Palestinians living side by side. Later, other countries followed us. But today, what we really now are trying to secure is a very fragile ceasefire. Um I really commend the work of um Trump administration of all engaged people to bring to this first ceasefire phase. But I do hope that all these next steps that follow will follow into the direction of securing two-state solution. So we have a long way to go.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, of course, the um latest ceasefire agreement did lead to the return of all of the hostages, but the ceasefire on the ground now is clearly a bit tenuous. What do you think needs to change or needs to be done uh to continue along this process? And are you suggesting that the two-state solution process is integral to continuing that ceasefire?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, first, um, as I said, um fragile ceasefire, it has to last. Um, and we are in the phase of negotiating further steps. I know that it's necessary to speak about demilitarization of Hamas, how to support Palestinian Authority to really give a chance for Jerusalem, East Bank, um, Gaza to somehow um have this Palestinian statehood and future. Um, it is worrisome to see the violence of Israeli settlers in the West Bank and also illegal annexation of West Bank. So this is something that is unacceptable. Also, the forced displacement of people out from Gaza or West Bank. So I think next steps must be, and we already discussed several times also in the UN with the New York Declaration and also now with the peace talks. What will be the reform of Palestinian authorities? How will go on with demilitarization of Hamas? What will be these international forces that will secure peace on the ground? And mostly what is still needed is an urgent humanitarian assistance to people we have to protect civilians on the ground.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, of course, Slovenia is cycling off of the Security Council. You'll still have your voice in in the General Assembly. Do you think that this has moved more to the General Assembly? Obviously, that was very important in the Palestinian question in the recent umga week in September. Or do you think that that most of the work still needs to be done in the Security Council?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, we had a lot of resolutions, a lot of votes in the Security Council and in the General Assembly. And Slovenia was quite often co-drafting the resolution, the first, in fact, which called seriously to a ceasefire, which was at the beginning basically of these um atrocities in Gaza. Um, now where we are is really diplomacy is ongoing. The efforts are there. With the latest resolution that Slovenia also endorsed in the Security Council, we have steps ahead. We have a board on peace so that is determined how to handle with Gaza. There are still maybe some opened questions or dilemmas or about a stabilization force on the ground. But the important is that there is readiness and awareness that we want to bring to peace and security in Gaza because there is rubble, there is the destruction. Um children, families have no safety to leave in Gaza. So even the reconstruction of Gaza will be very challenging. So we really have to do a lot to keep the peace and security in the Middle East. Looking now, also that there are other, you know, um heavy spots from from Libya to Syria where it's also very important to preserve peace and stability.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, of course, in your time in the Security Council, you were the co-pen holder uh for Ukraine. Um, and I should explain for those listeners who aren't steeped in uh UN lingo that that means you were essentially a co-lead of the file on the Ukraine on the Security Council. Are recent developments uh bypassing the UN, or is Europe being pushed to um sort of go it alone or take its own role on dealing with peace and security in Eastern Europe, particularly in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_02:

Allow me first to say that as European and as uh someone that visited Ukraine quite often, it is really difficult to see the suffering of people in Ukraine, especially in our fourth year of Russian aggression in Ukraine. You see destruction of energy infrastructure, killed civilians, um kids that um disappeared. So this is something that we all have to ask ourselves how to protect the international law, the UN Charter, and how to protect civilians. Um from the point of view as Slovenia, we discussed about the war in former Yugoslavia. Our understanding is very clear. No one by force can or change an internationally recognized borders or take your land away. So now I think what is important is that we see urgent ceasefire. The ceasefire is needed. Um immediate, unconditional ceasefire. Slovenia stands with Ukraine, so we do support Ukraine. We also got some orphanage and um refugees to our country, and it's not far. There is a nuclear power plant that is also uh extremely challenged. And this is more than a thousand kilometers away from Slovenia and there are other countries on the European continent that fear even bigger threat. So what we need, and I really commend all peace efforts that are currently on the table, including with the Trump administration. The diplomacy is working, it has to work, it has to give the place to finding a political solution instead of the military one. But when I say that, is that Ukraine has to be at the table, Europe has to be at the table, not on the table.

SPEAKER_00:

But are they different tables? Um, for example, you were just at the NATO Foreign Ministers meeting in Brussels, and Secretary Rubio was not there. It's the first time in more than a quarter century. Was that absence felt? And how did it change the nature of the conversation?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I wouldn't say that something has been different than NATO. We still feel quite strongly allies, even more because all the discussions are now how to make Europe also more resilient, um, how to make our alliance more um stronger in terms that we really work for peace and security and also assure a long-term and lasting just peace for Ukraine. So it's very clear that at the end of the day we will need strong European security guarantees backed up with um US security guarantees, and this is the direction the talks are ongoing. And I wouldn't um advise that um Ukraine is forced to take something that is against their national sovereignty or territorial integrity. That's why I say it has to be any peace agreement, that just and lasting peace agreement means that it's acceptable for Ukraine.

SPEAKER_00:

Now you mentioned your um various travels to Ukraine. You've been on several visits. You were on once just over a month ago and in late October, and of course you met with President Zelensky and discussed uh the high all the high-level topics, Pearl, their eventual um path towards EU membership. However, before going to the capital, Kyiv, you did travel around in the regions. What changes have you seen in how Ukrainians are coping uh with the war?

SPEAKER_02:

Honestly, I have to say that was a very emotional experience. Um, quite different when politicians speak to politicians, um, because here I had a chance to speak to people. And I visited a lot of towns where the war hit them badly. But mostly when I visited projects where we contributed maybe some support for simply housing for children without parents, we build a house or we help to hospitals for rehabilitation. It was shocking to see in a rehabilitation center so many young people I've never seen in my life without legs or without hands, but with a good spirit. And when you see all that, you know, and you see really these effects of the war, you ask yourself I mean, it's 21st century, where are we living? It's difficult to imagine that we are allowing such bloody war that is taking young lives away. So that was for me something that when I was going back, I Maybe felt even ashamed to be politician. Because if we are not capable to stop this suffering of people, something is wrong with us. So I do hope that we will be more aware what it means to have war on the ground and take our own responsibility. Eighty years since UN Charter, um, since United Nations. Eight years ago, if you look at the old pictures, our leaders committed to peace and security. So how would we today to recommit all our governments to the same values at that time?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, speaking of your recent um meeting with President Zelensky, you did discuss the Pearl, the prioritized Ukraine requirements list, which is a NATO-led initiative focusing on purchasing weapons for Ukraine and their defense. You also spoke, I believe, about your pathway to EU membership. Um that may feel very far away given what's happening on the ground. And uh what specific steps is Slovenia taking?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, it's a sovereign decision of any state whether you want to join the European Union, and Ukrainians decided so. So we are truly and sincerely supporting them in these efforts. We went ourselves through that process that requires a lot of painful reforms. Um, and I do hope that we can, as a country, support Ukraine on the part of these reforms and uh really try to be helpful when it comes to the European future. It goes the same with our Western Balkan neighborhood. For 20 years, we are a strong supporter on the enlargement of European Union to the Western Balkans because they are part of Europe. They have always been and they will always be. And it's a geostrategic necessity that Europe gets united, gets stronger, and also enlarge. And my strong conviction is that we have to do it rather sooner than later. So we try to encourage countries to get ready, to take this chance, because reforming means making life better for your own citizens. So as I speak about the Western Balkan enlargement, I speak the same with Ukraine, Moldova that decided for European uh perspective. We have maybe other countries, Iceland, Norway, who knows? But it seems that Europe can be still very attractive.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, so there's plenty of room for enlargement, uh, at least in the EU. Um, have you also taken a position on NATO enlargement and Ukraine's eventual inclusion in NATO?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, you you will well recall one of the previous uh summits, I think some year ago, when um it was the beginning of irreversible process at that time. But we clearly were all aware that as long as there is a war or as long as there is no common decision, there can be no enlargement. Yes, we speak about open door policy as Slovenia, but um I don't think that these are currently uh the discussions that are on the table. So um for a long time we haven't been discussing anymore about adoption. So the process was there, but we need to see the end of the war.

SPEAKER_00:

Um what is Slovenia's position on the frozen Russian assets? Are there things that you believe could be done uh to overcome some of the concerns that Brussels has about releasing those to Ukraine?

SPEAKER_02:

First, we we you know well that we contributed as a country significantly to Perol. It's something what Ukraine needs, it's something that we are working closely with the US. Um when it comes to frozen assets, it's um the heads of state of the EU that will take the final step. And I know that it's very difficult, very challenging discussion. Um, especially what we always say we need strong legal grounds, also strong fiscal analysis on or impacts on the member states. So we are aware that we have to do some further steps, but at the end of the day, the heads of the governments will be deciding and also deciding together with Belgium, with the European Central Bank. These are not easy steps, but mostly they require a strong and large broad legal interpretation. But you believe it is it would be possible to I don't want to predict because the discussions are uh pretty pretty difficult.

SPEAKER_00:

Politicians don't like when when journalists ask them for a crystal ball. You know, you've been on both sides of these conversations, so you know we have to ask. Speaking of which, you've been a key political figure, first as a digital and television journalist and radio journalist, and then as a politician. Really, during the transition to a modern young democracy, what can they do here at the United Nations to help more women in your position and more countries have those opportunities?

SPEAKER_02:

No, that is a nice question, thank you. Because uh I have to say that I'm a first uh female foreign minister in the history of my country, which sometimes I find a little bit challenging, but I at the same time really try to encourage women to um enter the decision-making process. I wish to see more women on high positions, and I also try to uh be engaged in the process back at home, how to make more, you know, plays for women at the ministry abroad, but also in all other aspects of foreign politics. So raising awareness about what is happening around the world with women and girls, quite often they are victims of violence, um, of wars, of climate change, of famine. Um, but I think now, just as we are entering in a very interesting year because um uh secretary uh general is leaving the post and just a new process is launched for a new secretary general. Um, also the latter um encourages countries to propose a woman, and Slovenia is among them. I think it's a good time to have a uh female as a secretary general, because at the end of the day, we are half society, our woman. Why not first time in the history? But even more important is what kind of person will be next Secretary General, because from that person will so much depend about the future of organization, multilateralism, the efficiency of the organization, and if we will be capable to return back to what it's the mission of this organization, this is to protect peace and security around the globe.

SPEAKER_00:

Certainly the conflicts have um become more difficult than they were in recent years, at least since the Cold War, and uh also have involved um some real great powers with unfortunately some real great firepower behind them. Uh what particular characteristics do you think might help? I mean, I I understand you support a woman in the role of Secretary General, but what um do we need to see from the Secretary General looking out over the next five to ten years?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, looking that we live in times of geopolitical turbulence, in times that there are more transactional relations or multipolar worlds, name it, the world order is at um stake. So I think that person will have to be capable of searching for compromises, rebuilding trust, securing future, and really recommit back to values of course adapted to current circumstances, but values that puts in order back the organization. If I say as a Slovenian, for us there is no better alternative than functioning multilateralism, um, international law, and UN Charter. We are not a country that starts or ends the war, um, but we are a country that wants peace and a dialogue.

SPEAKER_00:

We are going into this election process, and it is going to consume a lot of time and and a lot of chatter, I would assume, in the corridors in uh 2026. It is widely believed that it will be someone from Latin America because of this informal uh rotation. However, uh, I've heard several Eastern Europeans point out that there has never been an Eastern European in the role. Uh, do you believe that Eastern Europe should be considered, or should there be any focus on which region that this uh this next leader of the United Nations comes from?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, everything you you said is right. It's um in fact never was a Secretary General from Eastern Europe. Of course, um, on the other hand, we all know that Latin America is preparing it's kind of unofficial with a lot of candidates. But I think the process is open to everyone. What I more fear, and I hope that won't be the case, that this time around we might see more vetoes when it comes to the process itself. And that would be bad for the organization. So I hope there will be a lot of good, healthy uh dialogues and um, you know, conversations or hidden diplomacy, uh, that we will really preserve the organization and simply choose the best next Secretary General that we work for, uh, peace and security.

SPEAKER_00:

And I should mention what when you refer to vetoes for our listeners and viewers who aren't familiar with the process, uh, the recommendation is made by the Security Council. So that the veto power of the five permanent members does come into play, uh, although the General Assembly will have a final, a final say. So it should be a fascinating year. Any final thoughts you have as you conclude your two-year term on the Security Council? Is there any advice you would give to the members, for example, coming in, the elected members or future elected members based on your experience?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, our motto was um let's uh listen to each other, let's hear each other, let's try to understand each other. I think it's a huge investment in building confidence and trust. And I think no matter the size of the country, it's a huge responsibility. So I think working for what is um, you know, good for people, I think to be aware of that responsibility is a huge burden. But it's an amazing experience, and I also have to say it brings out the best diplomats. So I'm very proud of what Slovenia has done these two years. I'm very proud that we stayed a principled country, um, that we build our credibility around the world. And in fact, I even believe that in the last two years we got lots of new friends.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's uh an excellent note to end on. Uh, Bad Minister, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's it from the delegates lounge. We'd like to thank our esteemed guests who've graciously allowed us to share their hard-earned insights into what really matters. And then there's you, our listeners, who we hope are sufficiently edified to clamor for more of the same. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you like what you've heard, please take a moment to rate or review the show as it helps others who share your abiding interest in world affairs to find their way to the Delegates Lounge. You can connect with us on many popular social media platforms or reach out to us directly at infothedelegateslounge.com. We're a small team, so we can't respond to every message, but we will read them. Our show this week was written and produced by the host and by yours truly executive producer Frank Radford. Until next time, keep calm and curious.