The Delegates Lounge

Ambassador Robert Wood on Realizing the 'Pact for the Future' at the UN

• The Delegates Lounge LLC • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Join us as we sit down with Ambassador Robert Wood, the Deputy Permanent Representative of the United States to the United Nations, for an exclusive conversation about the effort to get the Pact for the Future approved and the expectations from it to include the critical need for Security Council reform to make the UN system more effective and legitimate.

As we shift focus to some of the world's most urgent conflicts, we navigate the dire humanitarian crisis in Sudan and the ongoing situation in Ukraine. We also analyze Iran's destabilizing actions in the Middle East and their nuclear advancements. Don't forget to tune in and connect with us on social media to stay updated on world affairs.

J. Alex Tarquinio (host). @alextarquinio of @delegateslounge on X, formerly known as Twitter. 

Ambassador Robert Wood, Deputy Permanent Representative of the United States to the United Nations (guest). The U.S. Mission to the United Nations can be found at @USUN on X, formerly known as Twitter. 

References:

Alex, our podcast host, wrote the United Nations General Assembly curtain raiser for Foreign Policy, and in it, she explains the 'Pact for the Future,' and quotes Ambassador Robert Wood along with other UN experts. Here's a gift link for nonsubscribers.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/09/23/unga-summit-united-nations-dysfunction-guterres-russia/

The Pact for the Future is explained in this site about the Summit of the Future.

https://www.un.org/en/summit-of-the-future/pact-for-the-future

In recent remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations, Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the U.S. Permanent Representative of the United States to the United Nations, discussed the U.S. commitment and vision for reforming the United Nations Security Council.

https://www.cfr.org/event/conversation-us-ambassador-united-nations-linda-thomas-greenfield

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Welcome to the Delegates Lounge. Pull up a chair. I'm Alex Tarquinio, a journalist based at the United Nations here in New York City and your emcee for this podcast featuring some of the most influential minds in the world today. Settle in for some riveting tete-a-tete, available wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome back.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

It's the first day of the high-level week at the United Nations here in New York and we'll be hosting you in the Delegates' Lounge all week long. This is the UN's annual homecoming week in September, when world leaders converge on New York to speak before the Green Marble Rostrum in the General Assembly Hall and, to mix it up with other VIPs, we'll be bringing you interviews with ministers and senior diplomats. We're very pleased to begin with Ambassador Robert Wood, the Deputy Permanent Representative of the United States to the United Nations here in New York. He's a career diplomat who has served in postings throughout the world. He's also a familiar face in the Security Council, where he often represents the United States. He sat down with us here inside the United Nations headquarters to discuss the path for the future, a new wide-ranging document setting out a laundry list of goals to include curbing climate change, improving humanitarian relief and reforming the UN itself. We also talked about many of the gravest conflicts in the world today the Middle East, ukraine and Sudan. Here's our conversation.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Good morning, mr Ambassador. Thank you so much for making time for us in the middle of a busy UN week. Thank you for having me. Thank you much for making time for us in the middle of a busy UN week. Thank you for having me, thank you. I wanted to discuss the Pact of the Future, which was approved by consensus yesterday, and obviously, security Council reform. That's a big piece of the pact. It's a very big pact, but that's something that people looked at closely. This has been discussed for decades. Does the pact and the remarks that the ambassador gave at the Council of Foreign Relations does that move us any closer to actually achieving Security Council reform?

Amb. Robert Wood:

You know actually I think it does the pact was a big victory for the international community. These were tough negotiations. It didn't look late last week that we were going to actually get an agreed text. The text was agreed. This will have a big impact in terms of revitalizing the international system, everything from arms control to you name the issue you're going to see, I think, a fundamental recommitment to how we accomplish our objectives in the international system. It gives a big boost to the sustainable development goals and I think it will drive us toward a much better execution of the SDGs. So it was a big day for the international community.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Ambassador Thomas- Greenfield's speech that she gave at the CFR about Security Council reform. As you said, security council reform is a key element of the pact, but I think it demonstrates America's commitment to making sure that the Security Council going forward is fit for purpose. There is a lot of there's been a lot of criticism, as you know, about the Security Council not being able to live up to its obligations and responsibilities, which would allow for two permanent seats for Africa, one rotating non-permanent seat for small island developing states. Governmental negotiations process through a text is a real sign. A real signal that we are sending is that it's time for reform. The council no longer, in the minds of many, is a useful mechanism. We fundamentally disagree with that, of course, but we think now this is an opportunity to reshape the council in a way that makes it more credible, legitimate and effective in the eyes of the international community.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

I wanted to ask you a little more about the pact for the future. It's a very broad document, covers a lot of themes trods some familiar ground. It talks about existing humanitarian law, and yet it was very challenging to get it passed. There were some objections to, for example, sections on climate change, and of course, there was the famous amendment that went nowhere but was proposed by Russia at the last minute. Tell us a little more about what you think in the pact is good and can be built upon.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Well, there are so many good things in the pact. I mean, this was the product of some very, very difficult negotiations, but one of the things I do want to say very clearly is that the reason we were able to get to the point where we could get this adopted was through American leadership. We, from early on in the process, invested a lot of time and energy and resources and commitment to helping to shape this in a way that would be satisfactory to as many countries as possible. So we worked very closely with the Global South. We worked with other partners to try to see if there was a way we could come to agreement. It's a grab bag of issues.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Security Council reform was an important one you talked about, you know. Digitization is one of those big issues. The digital compact, which was a greater piece of this. There's so many pieces in here and I think when we got to a critical point late last week where there was, you know, the Russian amendment, we were encouraging countries to put pressure on Russia and they were doing this as well to make sure that we could get to a place where this could be adopted.

Amb. Robert Wood:

It was very difficult.

Amb. Robert Wood:

The negotiations, as you mentioned, were quite contentious, but we worked very hard and went into overdrive to do what we could.

Amb. Robert Wood:

There were a lot of things in this document that the US felt very uncomfortable with, but at the end of the day, we felt it was important to see this adopted, because this PAC for the future is going to revitalize the international system and that has been a policy goal of the Biden administration from the beginning.

Amb. Robert Wood:

So we're very pleased with the fact that we have this. It is a blueprint to take us forward, to make the international system more responsive, more pragmatic, more legitimate and, frankly, give people around the world a sense of hope that our international system is going to be revitalized and modernized and fit for purpose so that it can address the concerns that people around the world have about the UN system. And hopefully, by adopting this pact, we will start to see improvement in the lives of people all around the world, the average person on the street, whether it's in Amsterdam or Algiers, to see the world become a better place through this pact. Now, I'm not going to kid you that this is something that's going to happen right away, but again, this is, I think, the blueprint for moving forward, and it wasn't easy to get to, but I think the international community should be very proud that we were able to reach we were able to adopt this document that we were able to reach, we were able to adopt this document.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Could you give one or two quick examples on how, or even just an example on how the average man or woman on the street might? I mean, there's so much in there. There's AI, emergency response, you know, maybe some things that were discussed in the negotiations about how this could impact real people's lives.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Oh well, I think for one, the climate issue that you raised. Climate was a key element of this pact and we do hope that this will energize climate negotiations. I think there's a lot of momentum coming out of. There will be a lot of momentum coming out of high level week and the fact that we were able to adopt this pact. I think it shows the average person on the street anywhere in the world that the UN understands that climate is a big, big crisis and we're committed to doing something about it. Again, the pact is a great blueprint for moving forward and I do think at some point we'll start to see some improvement in terms of being able to address the consequences from climate change. So there's a lot there, a lot to do, but I do think once again that the fact that we were able to adopt this pact it's a big deal.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Well, some diplomats say that the climate was the one area that some countries did try really to water down, primarily petro-states. But you think there's enough in the pact, even after those negotiations, to build on for climate change.

Amb. Robert Wood:

I do indeed, I do indeed, and I think, given the climate crisis that we're facing, there was no doubt there had to be compromise. There's no question about it. This was a difficult negotiation overall, but the climate language as well. But I think we're in a good place and, again, this pact will, I think, re-energize future negotiations on the climate, because it's clear that we have to do something for future generations and I think the pact will help us move forward in that direction.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

I did want to turn. We have a busy program, obviously, this week at the EU, and I wanted to turn, though, to the big news of today, which is that it does appear the Middle East conflict has been widening from being primarily in Gaza to including Lebanon. What can the US do, as arguably Israel's closest ally, and with all the negotiations that Secretary Blinken has been doing, what more can the US do to keep this from becoming a winding home?

Amb. Robert Wood:

Well, we are doing a lot. We're very concerned about the escalation of tensions in the region. We're very, very concerned about it. But the president, secretary of state, national security advisor, Amos Hochstein, who is our lead negotiator in dealing with the Lebanon crisis everybody is working extremely hard to try to do what we can to reach a diplomatic solution that will allow for Israelis and Lebanese on both sides of the blue line to be able to return to their homes safely and securely. Look, this is not easy.

Amb. Robert Wood:

You know we're doing everything we can diplomatically, talking to all the parties, and we think that that is the best way for us to bring about some calm in the region, particularly in Lebanon right now and in Israel, is to try to get this diplomatic solution. So we'll continue to work that because we must. The situation we don't want to see it escalate into a much broader regional war. So the next few days are going to be, of course, critically important. There will be a lot of discussions during high-level week about how we can help the region recover from what's been happening, but also to do what we can to make sure that this back and forth across the blue line doesn't develop into something much greater and much more dangerous.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Sudan. This is a conflict that many people feel has been somewhat ignored. Obviously, there are many conflicts around the world that require more attention, but in Sudan it's threatening to become a bigger conflict and also there is a concern about potential famine. According to the UN, there are a couple of events this week on Sudan, but some people do feel the UN could do more. Can you tell me what more you think, particularly with the US role as a permanent member of the Security Council, could be done for Sudan?

Amb. Robert Wood:

Thank you for the question. This is one issue that we think the media, the diplomatic community, hasn't paid enough attention to. It is a huge catastrophe what's going on in Sudan, and Secretary Blinken will be hosting an event on Sudan here this weekend. As you said. There will be other events going on with regard to Sudan.

Amb. Robert Wood:

As a Security Council member, we are trying to drive greater attention to this issue, not just with the media, but again with our council colleagues, and it's been very challenging. There's been a lot of focus on Gaza, and rightly so, but this is, as I said, is a major humanitarian catastrophe and we need to step up our game here in the Security Council to help address this situation. Sudanese are losing their lives, there's famine in Darfur. We have to do more and we hope to again bring more attention to this issue during high-level week Because really, with what's going on in Sudan, this is a major failure for the UN and we are encouraging not just other members of the Security Council but also the Secretariat to step up its efforts to do what it can to improve the situation on the ground for the Sudanese people. But you have the two belligerents, the SAF and the RSF, who seem to want to fight to the end at the expense of the Sudanese people.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Ukraine's President Zelensky will be here at the UN, speaking at several events the summit and, of course, the GA, but also a special meeting on Ukraine. He's also bringing his victory plan, and I know you can't evidently say too much about the administration policy before it's been announced, but is there a moral case for Ukraine being given more permissions to use weapons that have been donated to it?

Amb. Robert Wood:

Look, we, as the United States, have been committed from the beginning of Russia's full invasion of Ukraine.

Amb. Robert Wood:

We have said we want to be able to help Ukraine defend itself and we've been providing it with the weapons that it needs to do so Throughout this conflict.

Amb. Robert Wood:

We have adjusted to situation on the ground in terms of the type of weaponry that's provided. We will continue to adjust and pivot where we need to. But we do think it's important that the international community this week also focus very seriously on the situation in Ukraine and, again, we will continue to look at what goes on on the ground. But, as we've said to the Ukrainians and we will say this again to President Zelensky when he is here that we are with Ukraine for as long as it takes and we will do everything in our power, along with our allies, to make sure Ukraine has what it needs to fend off this horrible invasion of Ukraine by Russia. And I think this week will also be an opportunity to focus attention on what Russia is doing, the horrible things that it is doing in Ukraine. So it'll be a great opportunity. As you know, president Zelensky will also be going to Washington, where we have meetings with President Biden, and we can't forget this conflict. With so many other conflicts going on. We cannot forget what is happening to the people in Ukraine.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

I did want to ask you about Iran. Evidently it's transferred weapons to Russia to use in Ukraine. Also, since the prior US administration left the agreement, iran has greatly advanced its enrichment. What, if anything, can the US do to keep Iran from getting bombed?

Amb. Robert Wood:

Well, we've been very concerned not only about the developments in Iran's nuclear weapons program, but also we've been very concerned about the nefarious things that it's doing in the Middle East region, all of the bad happenings in the region. You see Iran's fingerprints and footprints on them, and we will continue to call out Iran for its mischievous and dangerous activities. They are at the root of the problem in what's going on in Lebanon right now. They are backing the Houthis, they are backing a number of other groups in the region, and Iran needs to be called out and we will continue to do so. And we will continue to make the case that if Iran wants to get back in the good graces of the international community, it needs to end this type of support for these militia groups. And until then, we will continue to do our best to ostracize Iran and go from there. But it really is Iran that is the source of so much instability in the Middle East and we want them to change course.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

But there's nothing in particular that can be done at the UN that could pressure on Iran.

Amb. Robert Wood:

I think, look, there will be lots of conversations going on, you know, particularly on the margins of all of the meetings going on here this week in New York, but there's no way to talk about a number of these issues, particularly in the Middle East, without looking at what Iran is doing, and so I think it's important for all of us to focus on what the root causes are of many of these conflicts in the region, and I do think that if you look closely, you'll see that Iran is involved deeply and very seriously in fomenting these difficulties in the region. So we'll continue to see what we can do, talking to our friends and allies and others, to further isolate Iran and try to get Iran to be a more responsible player in the international community.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

I did want to end on a lighter note. I'm asking all of the diplomats who speak with us this week about something from their cuisine. Could be food, could be drink, could be something that you have traditionally at home. Obviously, american cuisine is very multicultural, so for you it could just be a personal favorite recipe, but would you like to share that with our listeners?

Amb. Robert Wood:

favorite recipe, but would you like to share that with our listeners? Yes, I mean, one of my favorite dishes and it is very a multicultural dish is eggplant parmesan, and I know there are many countries kind of claim ownership of this dish. It is my favorite. It is my favorite when I go back to Washington on the weekends, my wife and I. Well, let me be honest, my wife prepares it for me. She's a wonderful, wonderful cook and the type of mozzarella cheese she uses and the type of eggplants are just wonderful, and I do help her from time to time make it with a little pasta on the side and it's just something that I enjoy thoroughly and it relaxes me quite a bit to have that along with a little glass of wine.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Now, as we're being honest here, did your wife always like eggplant parmesan or did she learn to cook it because it's your favorite dish?

Amb. Robert Wood:

She always liked it as well, thankfully.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

And what type of wine do you drink with eggplant parmesan? Is it red or white?

Amb. Robert Wood:

Red Red.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Always red.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Yes, no, but it is my favorite dish.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

No particular pairing recommendations.

Amb. Robert Wood:

I don't want to get into that. It could cause some problems. But it is my favorite dish and it is multicultural and I enjoy it very much.

J. Alex Tarquinio:

Well, thank you so much for joining us today in the Delegates' Lounge and good luck with the rest of the high level week, Mr Ambassador.

Amb. Robert Wood:

Thank you very much for having me, and we'll certainly need the good luck.

Frank Radford:

And that's it from the Delegates Lounge. We'd like to thank our esteemed guests, who have graciously allowed us to share their hard earned insights into what really matters. And then there's you, our listeners, who we hope are sufficiently edified to clamor for more of the same. Do drop in for a weekly episode on Thursday, or from time to time if we're on the road, for special events, in which case there'll be a bonus episode. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and if you like what you've heard, please take a moment to rate or review the show, as it helps others who share your abiding interest in world affairs to find their way to the Delegates Lounge. You can connect with us on many popular social media platforms or reach out to us directly at infothedelicatesloungecom. We're a small team so we can't respond to every message, but we will read them. Our show this week was written and produced by the host and by yours truly executive producer, frank Radford. Until next time, keep calm and curious.